Hey, good afternoon. Welcome, everyone. I am Nick Carpinito and I cover DePIN at Blockworks Research.
 Today, we're going to be joined by Mario Di Dio, who just stepped into the CEO role at Nova Labs,
 and is the company building and maintaining the Helium network. Helium is one of the more
 interesting bets in crypto right now. It's a crowdsource wireless network that major carriers
 are actively offloading onto. Mario has been inside Nova for quite some time, and he's seen
 the network move from a proof of concept to where it is today. And we're going to cover where the
 network stands today, where it's going, and a little bit about the recent changes to the network.
 Mario, thank you for being here. Well, thank you, Nick, for having us. It's very exciting to be here
 to talk about Helium and what we're building here. Yeah, super excited. Super excited. Before we get
 into where Helium is headed, I want to make sure the audience understands where you're coming from.
 Can you walk us through what your role historically looked like at Nova and what
 you were running on the network side of things? Yeah, absolutely. I joined Helium about three and
 a half years ago. This was when the Helium ecosystem was essentially adding mobile to their
 previous success from an IoT. I am a telco specialist in a way. I've been with the telco
 industry for about 20 years or so, and ranging from different types of roles in both the startup
 world as well and the enterprise. And I joined Helium to do a lot of the things that maybe are
 unglamorous side of it, if you want, like when we were launching the mobile hotspot and essentially
 driving how we launched our Wi-Fi offload network that is used today by carrier grade in many ways,
 and in ways that the telco industry haven't seen yet. And so, yeah, so that's definitely the way
 I've come into the ecosystem from a very telco oriented. And I do firmly believe that what
 Helium is building today is arriving exactly at the right time. I hope that we get to talk
 a little bit more about what are the catalysts in the industry for that and why I think it's
 Helium and the entire ecosystem, which is know about the deployers, the token holders are perfectly
 placed to capitalize on the opportunity that the telco industry is offering for decentralization
 and change of build out models in telco. Gotcha. Yeah, that's great context. And I think to your
 point, you're stepping into this new role at like a very specific inflection point. What does it mean
 to be an operator CEO versus a founder CEO for a network at the stage that Helium is today and what
 changes for you operationally? Well, you know, Amir, I have to, we have to owe a lot to Amir
 and his vision of what the Helium was in the beginning. And Amir is like the classical Silicon
 Valley founder with an enormous amount of grit, a generalist that can do all sorts of different
 startups on different verticals. And even back in 2019 was able to see how this model needed to go
 from a centralized to a decentralized one. And then, and I think based on that, the type of
 action that you do and the type of like decision making that you do is different than what we are
 now. So Amir actually is in a chairman role now within Helium. So he earned the title of a
 godfather of DePIN, I think rightfully so for kind of have this vision of what DePIN and
 decentralization can be for physical infrastructure. And now, now I think we are on a different stage.
 When you, when you, when you find enterprise scale product market fit, which I think that's where
 the stage where Helium is at, it's just a different type of decision making in terms of,
 you know, allocations of capital allocation resources. It's much more of an industry
 relationship forums and getting into that industry and getting embedded without within the Telco
 industry to make sure that that product market fit becomes essentially market dominance. Because
 again, as I think about Helium and how inevitable what we're doing is we want to make sure that
 we as a Helium ecosystem, we are the one that capitalized on that growth that we already had
 and how we assure that we have market domination in a, in an industry which is rapidly changing
 in many ways. So that's what changes is the decision making the type of resource allocation
 that you have and the type of like relationship building within the, within the vertical that you
 do once you find product market fit. And beyond leadership with Helium Mobile having been acquired
 by Noble Mobile, Nova looks a little bit different today as a company than it did maybe a few weeks
 back. How would you describe Nova today and did that acquisition clarify for anything for you
 strategically? Well, so that's an interesting one because I think that the mission, Helium mission
 is actually being always the same. So we're always being about building a new way of building and
 manage wireless networks. So that actually hasn't changed at all since the very beginning. However,
 we did, we did choose to launch a consumer carrier as a way to, to prove they actually,
 that carrier could run on top of the decentralization, the trends of our network. And
 actually it successfully worked. And we shared in the past some of the offload percentages that we
 were seeing in areas like New York City, for example, from the network. So that the fact that
 the consumer carrier exists enabled the network to start to grow. And then actually enabled the
 growth of the offload business in many ways. So at that point though, once we get to a scale
 of a target addressable market of hundreds of millions of users, when you put together
 all the carriers that we work with in US and Mexico today, but soon enough in Brazil and other
 places, it was really, it was really the right time to essentially have that transition to
 someone else and continue on again, what this is there and change mission of Helium over the years.
 So that's where Andrew Yang and the team at Noble Mobile, they actually saw that,
 that symbiotic relationship. And that's why that actually occurred. Look, at the end of the day,
 the real innovation of Helium is the way network has been built. And when you see the way
 Helium expands the coverage and the way we can offer that coverage with a better real-time
 analysis of that coverage carriers to any carrier, not just Helium Mobile per se, that's where we
 realize where the opportunity is. And at the end of the day, we are already taking big chunks of
 that trillion-dollar industry today and that demand for things like Helium is going to keep growing.
 So it was just the right time to do that way. And it was like a success in terms of proof. Of
 course, it came with a tremendous amount of effort. So the company does look different,
 very different today than it used to be. But as I said, I think it's exactly the right moment,
 turning point into capitalizing that network growth that we've been seeing for the past two and a half
 years. And what do you think made Noble the right partner to bring that business forward?
 Well, Noble Mobile and Andrew Yang share kind of the same idea regarding accessibility of
 connectivity. Their entire value proposition with Noble Mobile was about affordability.
 It is about being able to be connected at the right time with the right amount of your
 time or your focus time on it. So really, we had a lot of common points in that vision.
 As a matter of fact, like we already announced, they will continue to use the Helium network.
 Eventually, they will bring their own current Noble users into the network. So it's
 just that from a point of view of a Helium perspective, this change allows us to focus
 on the actual natural mission, while companies like Andrew's Noble Mobile can continue to do
 what they are really good at, which is consumer branding and also continue to grow. And with the
 plan of onboarding more and more of these MVNOs on this platform. We'll talk a little bit about
 the platform in a second, I hope, because it's one of the most exciting things that we are creating
 in this new but yet very coherent story of Helium growth. Yeah, no, I'm definitely excited to get my
 subscription transferred over and see what the new product experience feels like under Noble.
 Last one on Helium today. Does Nova have any sort of consumer product surface anymore,
 or do you see it now as maybe like a pure infrastructure protocol business?
 I think that our focus it is in the infrastructure business. And now, sure, there is always,
 because we are a decentralized network, there is there always aspect of that business that will
 talk more to what you consider a consumer, right? I mean, we still want to see people
 entering the space in the terms of new deployers that deploy Helium hotspots.
 Those are new companies. In a way, it's almost enabling people creating their own small enterprises
 into becoming a deployers. And so that part of the sea, if you wish, stays with Helium.
 But yes, the way that the tone, the voice, the branding, it's much different when you're trying
 to encourage people to join either as a token holder or as a deployer, as opposed to ask a
 person to change their phone plan. And that's why some of the value proposition about Helium Mobile
 switched over the years to try to be more appealing in a much more traditional B2C sense.
 And now instead, in an infrastructure based company, protocol based company like we are now,
 it will be much more oriented on the crypto side of things and oriented more on the value proposition
 for deployers and token holders to join the ecosystem. Yeah, it makes total sense.
 Would love to switch over here to the wireless landscape and learn a little bit more about your
 thoughts on how Helium is positioned within it. I think one of the things that really stands out
 to me about Helium's positioning is that it's deliberately horizontal, meaning that it doesn't
 own the customer relationship and works with other MVNOs and MNOs to bring coverage onto the network.
 Most players in the wireless industry are pretty verticalized today. Why is horizontal the right
 bet here? And what do you think that unlocks that a carrier itself can't do? So it's a very,
 it's a very good question and a question that we should always ask ourselves as we're trying to
 position the product into one of the, pretty openly, one of the hardest industry vertical
 that is out there in terms of innovation and for a reason. So before coming to Helium,
 I used to work at cable labs, which works with different cable operators on their wireless and
 wired infrastructure. And I learned that there is a reason why structurally that industry is,
 you might label it slow, but it's really much more like risk averse if you want.
 The reason is because when you are entrusted with carrying millions of people's data,
 your decision-making is just different. You work at a different speed. Why I'm saying all this is
 because historically the way telcos and cable operators, if you want in terms of like
 connectivity as a whole, it's operated in a very vertical layer, which means you own everything.
 You own the customer relationship, you own the towers, you own the site, you lease the site, and
 you own the backbone connectivity to those sites. And you try to come up with an effective cost
 for that infrastructure that then translates into pricing for your end users. That model
 has worked good up to a certain point, because what we've seen over time is that
 every time there is an evolution of a generation of, let's say, let's just stay for the mobile
 side in a second and we can talk about satellites and all that if you want later. But if you just
 stick to the G, the evolution from 2G to 3G to 4G to 5G and now even 6G starting 2030, it's come
 with multiples on the cost to deploy those networks. So the point now, if you look at some
 of the industry analysis, the demand that will cause 6G deployments to start around 2030,
 essentially is pushing carriers to try to find capex to fund a 6G deployment before the 5G
 deployments have been fully paid off. So essentially, we are at an inflection point where
 the traditional model of owning the entire infrastructure is not scaling anymore the same way.
 And we do see working out differently on different geography. US works on a different pace than,
 for example, Latin America when it comes to that. But I think there are several catalysts into that.
 So one of the reasons why this is important for Helium, because Helium is playing exactly at the
 time where telcos in the next three to five years will need to find, they already are, but they will
 be even more to find convergence, what this term is called convergence in the industry, which means
 adding extra access networks to their original cellular one. You can see this already with
 satellite with the work that Starlink and T-Mobile are doing, for example, a direct device. But Wi-Fi
 is a primary, for the ones that are not familiar, Helium mobile offer, it is based on Wi-Fi as a
 standard. So there is a catalyst in the industry with the 6G cost being multiples of 5G cost
 for deploying with things like their capex spend for the telco going down from 26% in '20,
 in '22 down to 22% in '24 and keep going down. There is all this catalyst, they're suggesting
 strongly that the industry needs a different way of building and leveraging third-party networks,
 leveraging third-party access networks. That's where Helium comes into play.
 And even in the case of satellite, which of course is a big, big industry focus right now,
 even in the future when there is enough density for outdoor coverage for satellite, there is still
 the problem of how do you serve traffic indoor? Like 80% of mobile traffic is consumed indoor.
 And so even in the case where satellites booms and we all think we're all looking at what
 SpaceX is doing, very, very hard capex having satellites with a four to five years repayment
 cycle to launch in the order of 40,000 up there. But still, even if in the case that is wildly
 successful, you still have to fix for the indoor connectivity. And that's where Helium comes into
 play. So all this to say that I do think that interoperability, that's what it's called in the
 industry term, the interoperability across different networks, satellite, cellular, and Wi-Fi,
 will play a bigger and bigger role over time. And Helium positioning themselves at the forefront of
 that interoperability play and that convergence plays in the industry, it's the most exciting
 thing I ever witnessed in my entire career. And do you think the value proposition for
 carriers is just cost reduction or is there a story about quality there as well?
 Oh, it's huge. It's the go hand in hand. It's a cost savings, like when it comes to like
 effective costs to try to reach a user. Like we're looking at reduction of over 12 to 15x when it
 comes to indoor coverage. In other words, what I mean is that when you're trying to reach a user
 inside a building using traditional server technology as opposed to use Wi-Fi, which is
 already present in the building, for example, it's about 15x more expensive for the telco to do so.
 So there's cost savings. And there is also additional revenue. And we can talk about that
 in a second, because essentially when you have a better user experience for the user, you can also
 sell differentiated services on your plan, for your business plan, for example. You can scale
 additional revenue lines. I don't know much you're following, but there is this fixed wireless access,
 which is Internet. Essentially, it's Internet home served by cellular. That is one of the
 hot topics in the industry for the past three to four years. Well, guess what? The more FWA,
 which is fixed wireless access, the more FWA devices out there, the more constrained their
 capacity on their cell tower is. So the point that today is the estimate is that T-Mobile,
 for example, alone is using more than 60% of their capacity for FWA. So if they want to
 continue to grow their revenue line, they need to find ways for that capacity to be used and make
 space for FWA, which will be offloading their mobile subscriber to Wi-Fi. All this, though,
 is already being there in the industry four or five years ago. But now it's even more important
 once you factor in the quality. When you can actually create real quality in your network
 and when you can guarantee that the quality of service for the user they're using Wi-Fi
 is on par with what they will get from cellular, that's where the switch comes. And we see this
 over and over again in the eyes of and in the connection and the conversations they were having
 within the telco executive around the world, where they approach offload. Even the even term
 offload shouldn't be used. I know that everybody understands what it means, but we're actually one
 of the big proponents of changing the term because offload, it kind of implies that you're taking
 load off of the cellular network into something else. This is actually a pure convergence. It's
 actually a peer network. And the moment you can convince the telco industry, like we are doing,
 that you can do that with quality, then essentially the world is on your oyster because it's not about
 offload anymore. It's about how can I use that access as a complementary to my build-out model
 for cost savings or additional revenue. So that's where the quality comes into place. It's really
 hand in hand with the concept of cost savings and additional revenue. And you mentioned in a previous
 AMA the real-time quality of service telemetry and its capabilities for networks. For people who
 haven't thought about this before, what is this actually measuring and why does a carrier want
 that quality of service data? I think the easiest way, just let's make an example. So Nick is one
 of the, you are one of the users of one of the carriers that work with Helium. Traditionally,
 before Helium and this discussion about quality of service, when Nick was entering an area,
 coverage area, and it would offload into their local Wi-Fi, the moment you connect to that Wi-Fi,
 the carriers loses completely all the visibility from your quality of service. They don't know if
 you're having a good experience. They don't know how you get connected to that Wi-Fi. Would they
 need to disconnect? Is that Wi-Fi congested? Should I disconnect Nick? All that visibility
 and actionability in a traditional sense is gone. The carriers don't have that. Now enter the Helium
 era in which because we are the first offload network to have real-time quality of service,
 activated in our fleet, in the network. When Nick enters a Helium coverage area, now their carrier
 doesn't lose, actually gains the visibility on Nick's quality of service during the Wi-Fi
 and can make intelligent decision on how onboard Nick, when to onboard Nick on the network,
 sometimes when to kick Nick off of the network. And that can be a function of many things. It can
 be time of the day. It can be load on the cellular network. It can be congested on the Wi-Fi that
 you're joining. So essentially quality of service metrics allow carriers to take full advantage of
 different networks and optimize their user experience, their costs as well, in a way that
 has never been done before. And that's the role the Helium is and the entire industry is actually
 taking. It's not just within the decentralized crypto world. It's exactly in the talker world.
 That's why if you read our announcement back in April with AT&T last year, that was from a center
 of what we are working with them. And it's opening to us all the doors BD-wise across the world,
 because that is the way offload and convergence can actually be realized in the real world.
 Yeah. No, that's awesome to hear. And awesome that you guys are pushing the industry forward
 on that front. It sounds like it's hard to come by for carriers. And so being able to build the
 standard is always the first step in the right direction. I want to talk about some of the
 institutional work you guys are doing. You also mentioned previously on an AMA FirstNet, E911,
 and BD as all part of the current Helium roadmap. What does Helium's role look like in each of these
 and how far along are those conversations? So this effort is with both federal and state
 agencies is one of those efforts that I think will bring one of the biggest outlock as well
 for Helium. I'll say why. We've actually talked with several agencies, but also on the ground
 with police chiefs and state marshal and fire chiefs. And they all share the same problem,
 which is the fact that the device they use during emergency, they all face the same challenge when
 it comes to indoor connectivity. And in some cases, even outdoor, but mostly about indoor
 connectivity, which means that it really, like really base level. If you open your Wi-Fi settings
 in your phone, you probably see 20 networks in there, and you probably can't join any of them.
 There is really no reason why for an emergency, why a network that is already in there,
 deploy, could not be used by the emergency responder to do their job, which is to save lives.
 And that pitch is resonating with emergency responders, with the first night authority,
 with the E911 efforts, because we want to ensure that world interoperability. What does it really
 mean? It means that when an emergency responder comes in to answer to a school in distress
 situation and enters the school, then he has to be able to use the Wi-Fi inside the school,
 as opposed to relying on a cellular network outdoor that tries to penetrate inside the building.
 And the way helium is building, so this is a push in general for the entire Wi-Fi industry,
 but the part about the quality of service that I just mentioned, the helium is spearheading,
 is shining a light about the fact that that network can be used effectively by those emergency
 responders. In E911, even better, when we talk about routing calls, for example, for different
 dispatch centers, when you have your geolocation based on your cellular network, you have
 uncertainties that are in the order of several miles, or where the emergency responder is,
 compared to where the call is coming. And so that's what it gets used to
 route the calls to dispatch centers. Well, guess what happens if you have a helium-enabled school
 and now the emergency response that is inside the school is connected to the Wi-Fi, the location
 accuracy that we can provide to the dispatch center is much more granular, and that allows
 to better decision making in the back end for the dispatch centers and better response time.
 So these are big challenges they were helping pushing forward, and that's why, again, while
 what we're talking about here is a lot around the decentralization and the crypto aspect of
 what we're doing, these are real-world examples that fit into the model that helium is bringing.
 And we can't wait to see how those efforts move forward in the next couple of years.
 Yeah, that feels like an ideal use case for a truly decentralized wireless network.
 Let's talk a little bit more about where the network stands today. Where are you on daily
 users, active devices, carrier partnerships? What are the headline metrics that listeners should know?
 Well, helium serves today as agreements with several carriers in both in US and Mexico.
 And that agreement allows their users to automatically be connected into the network
 and to the helium deployers to be rewarded for the work that those devices provide, essentially,
 for the connectivity those devices provide. Where we are today is that we offload,
 the network carries traffic for several million people daily. We are over 100 terabytes of data
 a day. So when you look at that, when you look at that over the course of just a year and a half,
 the number has been growing. Now, definitely, we do see a lot of consolidation of that number,
 and we are seeing a lot in the pipeline that will push those higher and higher. But
 I think I've said this in the AMA. The problem at this point is less about the demand. It's
 about the supply. So there is plenty of demand. What I mean is that when you make those relationships
 with those carriers, there is a lot of demand that comes from those users. Now it's about the supply
 part of the network to grow to capture that demand. So that's where the focus is, is to try to grow
 that supply to capture that demand. It's less about creating the demand itself like Helio Mobile was.
 The demand is there now. It's validated. Now, of course, there will be variability. I mean,
 that's part of what I mentioned at the very beginning. This is a very risk-averse
 industry. And for a reason, because they're entrusted to carry the data from
 millions of people, there is very hard penalties when things don't go well in that industry. So
 that mentality translates in a very risk-averse approach. So we do see carriers join. We do see
 carriers that they're taking their time to join, and they cycle along. And that's why things like
 reliability of the network to quality of service, for us, what they say,
 necessity is the mother of invention. The reality of quality of service metrics and
 the reliability metrics they were able to offer, it was a function of Helium to be able to manage
 a decentralized network, a network that none of us directly own because those are all the deployers.
 That necessity pushed the ability to get this quality of service. And once we realized that,
 we found ourselves with something that all of a sudden had a gigantic value for the industry.
 And so I think, anyway, where we are right now, we're very proud of what we have done. And I think that
 layering on top of just the pure growth of usage and data, this quality of service
 metric platform on top is the next big unlock for US and many other markets where we see
 the need for Helium to be even more accelerated in many ways than the US market as we stand.
 Very well said. Looking back at the past year of growth on the network,
 what do you think has been the most surprising thing?
 Well, I never thought that I would find myself in a room with the C-level executive of one
 of our carriers planning blockchain and crypto burning mechanism. I guess what surprised me the
 most was two things. One is the adoption cycle and how the adoption cycle is shortening, which is
 usually a clear sign of product market fit. It was very hard to get. The first one is going to be a
 little easier to get the 8.1 onboard. Also what surprises me that we put the network at stress
 in many, many cases. We've had gigantic events that we're tracking like the Super Bowl or Mardi Gras
 in New Orleans that really showcased the ability of the network to take on extreme
 variation of traffic and take on their flow demands. There's a small town in Miami. I'm
 sorry, I'm forgetting the name. There is a small town in Miami that doesn't have usually a lot of
 load. I think we're looking at 80 to 200 daily active users, but they host a big jazz festival.
 All of a sudden we see those devices going to 5,000 users a day and the network stayed up.
 The quality of experience was great. It's like being able to show that every time we have these
 cases, which shows how much what we're building is built for the future and how the carriers can
 trust more and more network they're building that way. This is the surprises. One is the adoption
 cycle and how I'm seeing telco executive becoming increasingly courteous about what is this
 flywheel system. The second is we have a very resilient, a very future-proof network
 that is already rock and roll, but is ready to rock and roll even more in the future.
 Your roadmap frames Helium as a platform layer. Can you explain what that means concretely and
 maybe what that would enable to be built on top of Helium that couldn't have been built before?
 Essentially, we're going to have more details coming out on that. When you think of Helium in
 the simplest form, you think of this offload network. You think of a network that is carrying
 data from users. They are automatically connected. One thing that I failed to mention is that those
 millions of users that connect to the network, in the majority of the cases, don't even know
 that they are being connected to the network. If you think of Helium in the easiest form,
 it's these millions of people that connect to the network and they transfer data into it.
 What I say about platform now, it's a tooling platform the carriers can use. It's a series
 of tools the carriers can layer on top of that experience to either realize more cost savings
 or either realize additional revenue or control better their user experience. I'll make an example.
 If you are one of the carriers that is already offloading into Helium, for example, you can
 get access to a tool that allows the carriers to indicate to the community where their coverage is
 needed. This is called an expansion zone. That part of the platform, we call it a carrier toolkit,
 a carrier offload manager toolkit. It allows carriers to get into our system
 and give us the geographic regions where they need coverage. That shows up in Helium World as
 expansion zone, which is nothing else than a carrier telling us where they need coverage.
 That is a tool of the platform. Another tool of the platform is, let's say you are an MVNO
 and you want to join the network, but you have a customer app. As part of the tooling,
 we have a mobile SDK, which is a development kit that the MVNO can include in their mobile app.
 After that, upon execution, of course, of a commercial agreement, they'll be able to join
 the network and they'll be able to offer to their users the ability to offload into Helium.
 Essentially, the platform they are referring is a series of tools and products that carriers,
 almost like a la carte, can pick and choose to maximize their ability to extract value
 from the network, either if it is a mobile SDK, if it is an introduction directly with the community,
 if it is quality of experience, metrics management, we call it Wi-Fi offload experience.
 The tools are meant to onboard more and more carriers. This is actually one of the conversations
 that we're having in the community. This tooling inside the platform, the end result, the enterprise
 KPI of these tools is more offload of the network, is allowing more and more offload of the network.
 Speaking of more and more offload on the network, international expansion has clearly been a priority,
 as evidenced by this conversation, as well as the roadmap that you published.
 Brazil, Mexico, Europe, and Africa are all in the public conversation right now.
 Where do these stand today and which one of them do you think will break out first?
 We've been very open about our plans in Brazil for quite a while. We have a company there,
 which is Mambo Wi-Fi, which already manages 40,000 access points in the country.
 We're jointly going after that market. I do think that Brazil will be the first one that
 will join the cohort. Also, there is a reason for it. The reason behind that, if you look at the data
 coming from that market, if you look at how much their data consumption in that market is compared
 to the US, you'll find out that there is more demand for data in that country than US. However,
 Ericsson on a Nokia radio cost the same, and the ARPU, the revenue per user of those
 carriers is lower than US. In other words, the squeeze is already happening.
 I always refer to this as a thesis, of course, because that's the best that we can do. I see
 Brazil what US will be in three years. Essentially, that squeeze is happening right now in that market.
 When we come and tell the story about how you can use Wi-Fi in an efficient way with a decentralized
 build-out model in which you can point where you need the coverage and the community builds,
 and it realizes cost savings, and you can manage the quality of experience of the users,
 that immediately opened a lot of doors in our conversation with local telcos. I think our
 EVP of business development, Mark Phillips, shared this in the AMA with the community last week. We
 have all essentially three MNOs and several MNOs that represent 90% more than of the subscriber
 actively engaged with us in trials. As usual, this is telco. It will take time. It is a long
 sell cycle, but the fact that we are taking that country by storm and how much our value proposition
 is resonating with them, it is telling that as those Catholics play a role in the global industry,
 we will see more and more of the need for that. Brazil, some part of Europe, and West Africa in
 many ways. West Africa is an interesting market because in many cases, what they do, they skip a
 G. What it means is that you see in those countries, they had a 2G network, they didn't have a 3G
 network, they had a 4G network, but they didn't have a 5G network maybe, and now they are looking
 into 6G and they are like, oh, do I deploy this very expensive this way? Do I do that? So that's
 where the conversation is very open in that market as well. Yeah. And in Europe and Africa, do you
 think you need the equivalent of a Mambo on the ground? Or what is the search for something like
 that look like? Great question. And I mean, I will answer head on. Starting a country from scratch is
 harder. It's very, very hard. So we have, I think the model that we're experimenting with with Mambo
 in Brazil is the correct model. If you find someone on the ground that is already managing
 a significant amount of their Wi-Fi infrastructure, this is a perfect joint proposition to the carrier
 because they can start, it's exceeding the network essential. You're saying we can do this and day
 zero, you have access to this. And then day one, people will start building on top. So I think that
 it would be ideal for us to find for each one of these countries. And we are finding in each one of
 these countries, companies that have access to Wi-Fi as a way to see the market. That's so far as
 being given, judging from the fast and how fast those relationships are growing in those countries,
 I think that's our way to go to market. And when you imagine maybe in the US,
 what a fully mature carrier relationship looks like on Helium, one that's been running at scale
 for a couple of years, what does it look like? Maybe to rephrase, is the carrier interacting with
 the token? I was about to say. No, no, no, that is actually where I was going. Look, while I was
 making a joke about the fact, well not a joke, it's real, the fact that we were at one of the headquarters explaining
 blockchain and the bare mechanism to executive, it is still very hard for carriers to directly
 interact with tokens. There is a lot of regulation that will probably help that along the way.
 I think that a mature relationship looks like those expansion zones, for example, that we
 have in the world right now. And the ability of carriers to entrust the network to deliver
 more and more on that promise that we can build coverage and a smaller cost for them with quality,
 that's where this will go. What I mean is I would love to see more and more expansion zones.
 I would love to see the community to fill those expansion zones. I would love the carrier to be
 able to reward that more and more over time. Anybody that's been into enterprise B2B sales
 will tell you the same thing. You do what is called a lend and expand strategy. You start with something
 just to gain the trust of the account, especially those giants. They're not just there waiting for
 you to strike a contrast, so you lend and expand. You start from something that you grow that
 contractual relationship and the leverage, and as the network grows, we are able to
 gain not only more contractual leverage in a business sense, but also more trust into really
 help each other to achieve common goals. Let me tell you one thing, one anecdotal
 note is that some of the carriers that we were working with up to several years ago,
 they had as a KPI the tonnage, what was the effective rate and the tonnage on Wi-Fi.
 Under that point of view, of course, Helium is a very small partner within their ecosystem of
 partners. Recently, they've just changed that in terms of priority from tonnage to number of
 locations. Now, all of a sudden, Helium actually was at the top of the list for number of locations.
 What is it telling? It's telling that as they evolve their strategy into this convergence
 interoperability, we need to stay very closely attached to understand what is their success
 criteria, suggest success criteria, and jointly come up together with that. What I mean in
 relationship in the future is that when those criteria are more attached to what Helium is
 bringing, that's why we're winning. The end result will mean more traffic, will be more
 burn, will be more revenue for the network. It will be more body data use and more usage of those
 platform tools that I mentioned earlier. Taking a step back for maybe somebody that's new to
 Helium, can you walk us through how HNT actually connects to Helium as a network? Why does the
 token exist? What work does it do in that system? Great question. Thank you for actually pointing
 that out. The token is essentially the enabler of how the coverage gets created. What does it mean?
 It means that essentially the Helium token is used for reward deployers for the work that they do for
 the network. The reason why I'm using the word reward for the work is because historically,
 there has been multiple ways of doing this within the Helium ecosystem. There used to be
 a thing called Proof of Coverage, which is still the case today, and then there was data traffic.
 But the basic idea is that it goes as follow. Whoever wants to use the network needs to
 directly or indirectly through a third party, like in this case it is, it needs to
 use the token and burn the token in order to use the network, and that burn mechanism translates
 into earnings to deployers. Now, there are multiple ways of doing that. There are ways to
 validate their use. There is a way to incentivize users. This is what used to be called. It's still
 called, again, proof of coverage to kind of jumpstart and see the network. I do see that
 we have product market fit, but we had to jumpstart the network in that way. We still
 do in many areas. In many areas of the world, for example, we still do that. But the central point
 is that HNTs will fuel the network use and will reward the deployer. Every time that network gets
 used, HNT gets destroyed as a function of it. That's the mechanism which HNT and the network
 are related. Makes sense. And HIP149 is a recent governance proposal that I think has been getting
 a lot of attention. You've spoken at length about it, but I'd like you to see if you can give
 a one-sentence version of what the proposal proposes. Yeah. So, simply put, I think that
 HIP149 is the best way to keep the interests of all the stakeholders in Helium aligned
 and to jointly sprint in what I call the next era, which is beyond this initial product market fit.
 Essentially, HIP149 is about resource, what is a validated demand, based on the fact that we do
 have enterprise fit. And also, we also introduce things like support for deployers with some
 guarantees in terms of earnings. And also, there's a more precise representation of burn based on
 carrier use. It gets closer to what the real world is. And again, what I say closer is because it's
 actually very complicated and very, very, it's very complex to translate that enterprise BD
 relationship sales cycle that was mentioning about land and expand into something that produces the
 growth that the network needs. So, I think that's what it is. I don't know if it's more than a
 sentence, but essentially it's resourcing the next step of the next era, giving deployers more
 guarantees and a better representation, a closer representation of the carrier use on chain.
 And assuming the proposal passes 12 months from now, what do you think success looks like? What
 are the metrics, the milestones that matter most? I think we need to continue to diversify our client
 base. And this is true both in the U.S. and as well as abroad. To me, success, like again,
 Mark Phillips and our team showed in the AMA last month is more carriers on board. It's more carrier
 partnership, more usage of the network and validation of that platform that I was mentioning,
 which is still at the very inception. So, success looks like more data on the network,
 more usage on the network, diversification of carriers across multiple countries, and a strong
 value proposition substantiated by the revenue that comes from that platform, from the intelligence
 platform that we mentioned before. And there's been some community discussion around the HIP's
 new emission structure as well, and maybe some concern about it. How are you thinking about that
 concern for the HNT holder? I take it very seriously, personally. I think it's a good way
 to say there is a lot of discussion about it, and that's okay. I mean, we welcome that discussion,
 and otherwise we wouldn't have that discussion if we didn't want to. So, we made the choice,
 we think that's the right choice to the source, and that's why we're opening that discussion.
 Now, on the specific point that you're saying, look, there is plenty of examples of high-growth
 companies that where the dilution is a natural part of capitalizing a resource the next phase.
 And so, we are one of many companies that even though Elim has been around for a long time,
 once you fire a product market fit, you need to use tools like that to jumpstart the next...
 it's not even jumpstart, it's actually cementify your position in the industry. And I wish I could
 show you and everybody in the community the quality of the conversation we're having in
 the industry. Just this morning, we were talking with our chief network officer,
 and we were talking with some of the leadership at WBA. WBA is a wireless broadband alliance,
 and they called us to give them, and this is an organization that represents hundreds of
 companies around the world, what is the strategy for quality of service to bring it into the
 industry because you see the product fit. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that when a
 company this small represents whatever we like it or not, it is a small portion, a very small
 portion of the telco, gets consulted by our standard body on how to bring this to the bigger
 telco in a sustainable way and how to create programs and compliance programs so we can build
 more carriers on it. It's an incredible, incredible proof point that what we're creating is not only
 real, it's actually wanted and is at the right point. So, all this to say that those concerns
 are real, and we want to address them, but also should not take away from an incredible
 opportunity that is in front of us to cementify the really poor roots into this and really become
 the dominant player into this space. We have the chance to become the dominant player. We want to
 be the dominant player, and this is one of the tools. So, that being said, the last part is that
 look, if you want to go into the details, for example, when it comes to emission,
 if we can hold the emission earlier, for example, that's exactly the goal. So, that proposal speaks
 around a specific amount of emission, but there is an advisory council that is formed that is
 community led, and within the realm of that council, we'll be able to potentially stop that
 emission if the product market fit accelerates to what we see it today. So, also, I don't want to
 shy away from the fact that it does require belief from the community, and I think it's my role and
 the role with the team to continue to be focused to tell the story. What are the catalysts in the
 industry? What isn't making helium inevitable? Why what we're building is here to stay? And so,
 we're trying to ground that proposal in the actual real business case, and that's why the AMA, that's
 why the pipeline review, that's why we are showcasing all the things that is in front of us, because
 we want to have belief from the community that this is the thesis that is going to play out.
 I'm not from the crypto space, natively, but I'm getting extremely excited as I get more, because
 just like anything else, when you are very entrenched into the industry, it's very hard
 to innovate. It takes a third party force in many cases to completely disrupt the status quo and get
 into the next era. This is true for any vertical. So, in our case, when I came in touch with what
 helium is, I see that this community base, this crypto base could be really the disruptor,
 the disruptive force that disrupts the status quo into the industry. So, I would love for this
 community to capitalize on that and to be able to be rewarded for the work that it does in the long
 term. Very well said. Thank you for getting into the weeds there and sharing your perspective.
 That said, let's take a step back out of the weeds here. If I'm a coffee shop, a stadium,
 a concert venue, how do I actually get involved with helium today? Let's say I'm not crypto native,
 I'm just aware of the product itself. And what's the value prop for me? So, if you're in a coffee
 shop and you try to make a call and your call doesn't go through, if you're at a stadium venue
 and you try to get your food delivered to your seat, it doesn't work. If you are on a shopping
 mall and you can open the shopping mall app to get your rebate, what you're experiencing is a
 connectivity problem. And I would say if you are within the realm of your interest, if you want to
 get involved and go try to talk to someone that works in that shopping mall or the coffee shop,
 try to get in touch with their management, the IT department. If you have a little bit of technical
 background, why don't you try to pitch what a connectivity solution is for that space?
 Or simply enough, you can understand, I would say you can understand the value of what we're building
 and then hopefully can bring you into getting involved as a token holder, for example. So,
 many different ways. You can from deployment, from becoming a channel partner. This is another
 program that we talked about internally at the AMA. I want to make sure that even if you're not
 directly managing a network, you can still source network for Helium. We call this a channel partner
 program. So, you're getting contact. Send us an email. Send that email to me, mario@helium.com.
 I'm replying every single email that comes to my inbox. So, or business@helium.com to become a
 channel partner, which means that even if you provide an introductory, an introduction to that
 venue, you can be part of the value chain creation and be rewarded for that. So, there's many ways of
 getting involved and it's all a function of how much you want to get involved from being just a
 token holder to become a deployer to just be a channel partner for the venue. Awesome. Ben, I
 didn't know about that program, but that's super exciting and I think will probably lead to some
 awesome use cases for Helium hotspots in the future. If you were an HNT holder watching the
 network today, what metric would you tell them to track over the next 12 months? Over the next 12
 months, I think you want to track the usage, how much data gets transferred from the network.
 The number of hotspots is an interesting number, but also in some cases, no whole hotspots are
 created equal. Like one access point inside, one hotspot inside a very busy shopping mall carries
 a very different traffic than a hotspot in a small restaurant in the suburbs of Denver, for example.
 So, I would say watch the number of data and the number of carriers that we are onboarding.
 Again, I'm not going to try to make it sound easy. Scaling this type of network is hard.
 It takes a lot of technology work, a lot of product work, a lot of sales and BD and enterprise
 understanding on how to do land and expand those deals. So, say any type of announcement
 on any new carriers that decide to join, it's a positive confirmation that what we're building,
 it is started to create, capitalize more and more on the value that we're creating for the industry.
 So, yeah, number of data, amount of data, number of carriers onboarded.
 Awesome. And last one for you, and it's a bigger one here.
 10 years out, looking at the model that Helium's created today and then what you think Helium will
 become, do you think that the neutral crowdsourced wireless offload network becomes a standard layer
 in how global networks are built? And if so, is Helium's head start durable on that front?
 The answer is a resounding yes, because as of today, I can't quite find a reasonable explanation
 on why if I am inside a restaurant and I see 20 different Wi-Fi networks, none of them I can access,
 yet I have trouble with my connectivity. Helium is solving that exact problem in a scalable way,
 and honestly, I believe in a future where the user doesn't really care how is it connected.
 The carrier is mine if it is satellite, it's cellular, it's Wi-Fi, but if we go into a future
 where I just want connectivity and I don't want to look to 20 Wi-Fi, ask for the password to the
 host or go into a capital portal, all of that is going to become obsolete and become a thing
 of the past. I'm a big proponent of removing the icon of the bars on the top right corner,
 the Wi-Fi, the cellular, who cares? Nobody cares. Nobody wants to know how you get connected. You
 just want to get connected. In that world, crowdfunded networks, community-based approaches,
 ways to, there's plenty of connectivity to go around is the access and interoperability that is missing.
 This goes back to the discussion about the Federal Estate Agency. We don't have, especially in the
 US, another part of the world, we still have some underserved area in the US as well, but generally
 speaking, there's plenty of connectivity around us is the accessibility and the interoperability
 of that connectivity. That is the part that Helium is solving. Among a lot of other things is the
 ability to access that layer. If we can make that ability seamless, transparent, almost magical for
 the user, that will become part of the standard way of building networks. Awesome. As we come up
 to the top of the hour here, anything you want to add before we jump off? No, I wanted to say just
 one more thing I want to say. Thank you for having us today. Thank you for the questions.
 We continue to be available in this quarter for continue the conversation. We'll host an AMA
 tomorrow as well with the community, which I invite everybody to join. There's a perfect forum for us
 to answer all the questions that come from the audience. I would say I am extremely excited
 on what this project can bring to the surface. I think that we are in a very pivotal point.
 What we're building is inevitable. I want to make sure that what we're building is us that makes it
 possible in the next five to 10 years. That is what's driving all of these conversations.
 Where can listeners go to learn more about Helium, connect with you? What's the best form of contact?
 Our website, Helium.com, of course, is the home. Our Helium Discord server, if you are
 interested in more of a business relationship, you can send an email at business@helium.com.
 If you have a personal thing that you want to share, just get in contact with me too.
 It's mario@helium.com and I'll do my best to respond to all the inquiries. We are eager to
 get more involvement from current community members, but also new community members.
 Any way that we can possibly have you with us and talking with us, we will welcome it.
 The floodgates are open. Well, thank you, Mario. This is an awesome chat. I'm glad that we could
 have you on today to chat more about where the Helium Network is at. Thank you for listening in
 and hope everyone has a good day. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, everybody, for listening.